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Living with Depression Where It’s Hard to Share: Interview with Cameron Stout | Episode 55

Overview
The decision to share one’s story about living with depression, addiction, suicidal ideation, or any other emotional challenge is deeply personal and worthy of reflection. With the nonprofit I help oversee, United Suicide Survivors International, we encourage people with lived experience to ask themselves, “Am I Ready” (on-line course) before sharing their story publicly. By weighing the pros and cons of sharing and preparing strategies of self-care that are helpful during the sometimes challenging process of crafting the narrative, storytellers can be in a better position to make a difference.

In this podcast I sit down with Cameron Stout, a securities defense lawyer who is boldly being “vocal, visible and visionary” in his industry by sharing his journey through and resilient recovery from depression and alcoholism. Attorneys are often type A professionals who are driven to succeed, yet often are reluctant to express vulnerability and share personal challenges. By speaking publicly about his recovery from major depression in 2013, and describing his seven years of sobriety, Cam reduces stigma, and helps others find the courage to be open. In addition to telling his story, Cam outlines the therapies, treatment, and wellness practices that have been key in his recovery process. As Cam will describe for us, his mission of being a storyteller has also been a large part of his own healing, as it can be for all of us.

About Cameron Stout
Cameron Stout.png
Cameron Stout is a nationally recognized securities defense litigator and a mediator. In late 2012, his legal career was derailed for over a year by a major depressive episode that required hospitalization. As a result of several modes of therapy, the love of family, friends and colleagues, and his own hard work, Cam is standing on the other side of the abyss of mental illness, and is seven years sober. Cam describes his journey in a short video, and in an article in the Princeton Alumni Weekly:

https://vimeo.com/230186411

https://paw.princeton.edu/article/essay-how-i-survived-depression

Feeling better in many ways than he ever has, Cam is paying his resilient recovery forward by sharing his message of hope and recovery with students, educators, and other professionals.

In July, 2018, Cam founded Stout Heart, Inc., a 501(c)(3) that supports the pro bono presentations that he makes to high school, college, and law students (including at Harvard and Stanford). www.stoutheart.org

Cam’s message is timely and powerful: The pernicious stigma around these illnesses is a dangerously false narrative that must be stamped out. Mental health conditions are just that, health conditions, not weaknesses. They are not our fault, and there is tremendous hope for ongoing recovery and effective management of these challenges.

In addition to candidly sharing his own lived experience, Cam discusses ways to identify and address mental health and addiction issues. He also describes his strategies for self-care, and how to build the mindful resilience and the perspective that we all need in order to learn, work, and live with a lighter heart and a more focused mind.

Cam graduated in 1980 from Princeton University, where he was a member of the varsity tennis team. Following his graduation with honors from the University of San Francisco School of Law, Cam practiced for decades as a securities litigator, defending financial services companies in customer disputes and employment cases. He is an active mediator in those practice areas as well. The very proud father of two adult children, Cam now lives in Princeton, New Jersey. For more information on this episode go to https://www.sallyspencerthomas.com/hope-illuminated-podcast/55

Emotional Intelligence at Work — Building Trust and Transparency Leadership Skills: Interview with Brent Darnell | Episode 54

Emotional Intelligence — What is it and Why Does it Matter at Work?
Despite being in public awareness for many years, emotional intelligence remains an undervalued competency in many workplaces. The more we learn about the impact of training on emotional intelligence at work, the more we impressed we are with the ways it can affect safety, retention and even insurance costs. If you are an “Alpha” or a “Self-Sacrificer” in your leadership style, you may experience burnout if you are not able to cultivate emotional intelligence skills. In the podcast, we help leaders overcome “the smartest person in the room syndrome, and learn more about the four basic elements to emotional intelligence and the 16 competencies of the EQ-i 2.0:

1) Self-awareness: The ability to tune into our emotions and intuition and have them help guide our decision making along with our reasoning.

2) Self-regulation: The ability to acknowledge our emotions as alarms or signals and attend to them without having them interfere with our functioning. By contrast, people with high emotional intelligence leverage their keen sense of emotions to enhance their well-being.

3) Social awareness: The ability to be in touch with the emotions of others.

4) Relationship management: The ability to leverage this awareness to inspire, influence, build trust and manage conflict.

About Brent Darnell
Brent Darnell
Brent Darnell is a playwright, author, actor, improviser, and Dramatists Guild member. He is also a pioneer in bringing emotional intelligence to the construction industry and has taught people skills to technical people at 100 different companies in 20 different countries. He also teaches these skills at Auburn, Penn State, Virginia Tech, and the University of Cincinnati. He has published eight books on emotional intelligence and people skills for technical people.

Gratitude in Action — How To Practice Gratitude and Unlock Happiness: Interview with Justin Kruger | Episode 53

“Gratitude unlocks the fullness of life. It turns what we have into enough, and more. It turns denial into acceptance, chaos into order, confusion into clarity. It turns problems into gifts, failures into success, the unexpected into perfect timing, and mistakes into important events. Gratitude makes sense of our past, brings peace for today, and creates a vision for tomorrow.”

~Melodie Beattie

Overview
Gratitude is the foundation of happiness. Practicing gratitude is like “going to the gym” for your emotional resilience. Lifting weights, yoga and jogging help keep up our strength, flexibility and endurance. Daily practices of gratitude and kindness build our mental fitness. In this podcast I speak with the Founder and CEO of Project Helping, Justin Kruger. We discuss how “gratitude in action” helps individuals and communities. Some daily practices we explore are:

1) Building a gratitude inventory through daily reflections or a Hope Kit.

2) Learning to give thanks freely, especially to those whose good work often goes unnoticed.

3) Giving yourself some grace and self-gratitude

4) Finding joy in intentional acts of kindness

Justin Kruger
About Justin Kruger
Justin Kruger started a social enterprise — Project Helping in 2014 after years of regularly volunteering himself in the community. Justin realized the power that volunteering had in helping him to overcome depression and suicidal thoughts and wanted to share that experience with others. The non-profit improves emotional wellbeing and authentic community connection through what Justin has calls kyndfulness, or a daily practice of volunteering, intentional acts of kindness, and gratitude. Justin also founded Kyndhub, an online community that similarly encourages people to do kind things for one another, and Kyndkit, a service that delivers volunteer experiences to communities and businesses — making it simple and fun to be kind. Justin also serves on the Marketing Committee of the Colorado Mental Wellness Network and volunteers at Urban Peak, a nonprofit working to help youth exit homelessness and create self-determined, fulfilled lives. For more information go to https://www.sallyspencerthomas.com/hope-illuminated-podcast/53 Music provided by https://www.royaltyfree-music.com

But I Didn’t Say Goodbye — Helping Families After a Suicide: Interview with Barbara Rubel | Episode 52

“Grief is love not wanting to let go.”

When children are grieving a death by suicide, they need the caring adults around them to help them find their way through Wordon’s tasks of mourning:

Task #1: Accept the Reality of the Loss

Task #2: Process the Pain of the Grief

Task #3: Adjust to a World without the Deceased

Task #4: Move on to an Enduring Connection While Embarking on a New Life

In this podcast, I interview Barbara Rubel, author of But I Didn’t Say Goodbye: Helping Families After a Suicide. We walk through specific strategies families and other caring adults can use to support kids bereaved by suicide across many developmental ages.

About Barbara Rubel
Barbara Rubel
Three weeks prior to Barbara Rubel, MA, BCETS, DAAETS, giving birth to triplets, her father died by suicide. Her story was featured in an Emmy award winning documentary, Fatal Mistakes. Barbara is a sought-after keynote speaker who has dedicated her life work to supporting suicide loss survivors and educating professionals about suicide postvention and vicarious trauma. As an author and speaker, she brings a deep understanding of thanatology and personal resilience to her work. Her list of clients span more than 500 organizations. Barbara is a consultant with the U.S. Dept. of Justice, Office for Victims of Crime Training and Technical Assistance Center (OVCTTAC) and co-wrote its training curriculum, Compassion Fatigue/Vicarious Trauma. She received a bachelor of science degree in psychology and a master of arts degree in community health, with a concentration in thanatology, both from Brooklyn College. She is a board-certified expert in traumatic stress, and a diplomate with the American Academy of Experts in Traumatic Stress.

Wellness at Work — What the Fire Service Can Teach Us about Creating a Kitchen Table Culture: Interview with Captain Dena Ali | Episode 51

Our best bet in preventing suicide is to get in front of it.

Way in front.

Promoting protective factors will not only reduce the risk of suicide — it also is a great way to build a life worth living. In this podcast, I interview Captain Dena Ali about what we have learned about wellness at work from the fire service and about the mitigating effects of social support, mindfulness and sleep. We also talk about the power of peer support to promote these buffering factors and how small interventions can go a long way. As you listen to Captain Ali, ask yourself, “How can these protective factors of the fire service be translated to other industries and workplaces?

Social Support
A strong support network is the most powerful buffer against PTSD, stress, and suicide. True social connection is based on trust, empathy and vulnerability. We can see at the brain science level how simply talking to others allows us to “know and understand what is going on with us while also processing the memories of the trauma.” According to Dr. Van der Kolk, the body keeps score, “As long as you keep secrets and suppress information, you are fundamentally at war with yourself. Hiding your core feelings takes an enormous amount of energy; it saps your motivation to pursue worthwhile goals, and it leaves you feeling bored and shut down. Meanwhile, stress hormones keep flooding your body, leading to headaches, muscle aches, and irrational behaviors that may embarrass you and hurt the people around you.”

We are hardwired to connect. According to Ali, “Social support is not just being in the presence of other; it requires meaningful connection and a visceral feeling of safety. You have to feel safe to share your thoughts and know that you are understood.”

The fire service has important protectors when it comes to social support like a feeling of camaraderie, familial support, and a communal sense of purpose. Workers pull together around the kitchen table to process the day and check in with one another in meaningful ways.

How can we help workers build out their “A-Team”?

Mindfulness
Ali states, “Mindfulness is the super power that allows humans the opportunity to own the space between a stimulus and the response.” Mindfulness works because it increases activation of the neocortex while decreasing activation of the emotional centers of the brain, which can help mitigate the impact of trauma. Several smartphone applications like Headspace and Calm or the Navy Seal’s Breathing Technique called “box breathing” work to promote resilience.

According to Ali, mindfulness for emotional survival is based on where you put your attention. Victims focus on what they can’t control. Survivors focus on what they can control.

How can skills of mindfulness be used in workplaces to mitigate experiences of overwhelm and other forms of workplace trauma?

Sleep
Sleep disruption is a key contributor to our emotional well-being. The sleeping brain prunes information to let emotionally relevant information stay present while letting irrelevant information fade away. It also helps traumatic events turn into memories experienced from an emotional distance rather than stuck in the reliving part of the brain. Sleep disruption can lead to emotional reactivity — anger, impulsivity and aggression.

When it comes to shift work, employers need to get creative to help workers prioritize quality sleep. Teaching workers about “sleep hygiene” can be a place to start.

What can be done to help workers sleep better?

About Captain Dena Ali
Dena Ali headshot B&W.png
Dena Ali is a captain with the Raleigh (NC) Fire Department. Ali has a degree from North Carolina State University and an MPA from the University of North Carolina—Pembroke, where her research focused on firefighter suicide. As a graduate student, she was awarded the 2018 MPA student of the year. She has also received several awards throughout her career. One that she is most proud of is the NC Office of State Fire Marshal Honor, Courage, and Valor award that she earned in 2018 for her steadfast effort to bring awareness to firefighter mental health through her vulnerability.

Dena has also served as a subject matter expert at the National Fire Academy where she assisted in curriculum review for their health and wellness curriculum. Dena is an advocate of awareness, education, and understanding of mental health disorders and suicide. She speaks locally and nationally on these topics and is a QPR Suicide Prevention Gatekeeper Instructor. She has written several articles on topics such as suicide prevention, peer support, wellness, and post-traumatic stress. Dena is the founder and director of North Carolina Peer Support where she helped to develop their statewide curriculum

The Human Side of Crisis Management: Interview with Tricia Kagerer | Episode 50

“We are not just human resources, we are human beings.”

A significant workplace traumatic event can make or break a company depending on how well the employer has prepared for it — at the heart of a successful transition through the crisis is the how well leadership connects with the people most impacted by the trauma. In this interview, Tricia Kagerer, an expert in workplace risk management, shares key steps in helping companies move from “it-will-never-happen-here” mentality to building a responsive plan for crisis.

Crisis can be defined as a time of intense danger or difficulty resulting in substantial emotional disregulation and or radical change of status. At the center of many crises a difficult or important decision is often necessary — this moment becomes a turning point for better or worse in this “seismic event.”

Some crises happen at work like trauma/violence, bullying, or downsizing. Sometimes when people’s identity is what they do, even retirement can feel like a crisis to some. Sometimes crises come to work like when an employee experiences a sudden death, a break with a serious mental health condition, a highly conflictual divorce or a significant illness or injury.

When facing these crises, the response by leadership often makes a critical impact on whether those most affected stay stuck in the crises or move towards post-traumatic growth. Many people exposed to a traumatic event, experience personal growth in the form of:

Appreciation of life

Relationships with others

New possibilities in life

Personal strength

Spiritual change

…even while they are also experiencing the very challenging experiences of trauma. What often makes the difference for those who move toward growth and those who do not is interpersonal communication and connectedness after the trauma. About Tricia Kagerer
More: https://www.triciakagerer.com/

Tricia is currently the EVP for Risk Management for Jordan Foster Construction in Texas, a large construction organization that performs civil, multifamily and general contracting across Texas. Tricia leads the risk management, safety and leadership efforts.

Previously she served as a Risk Management Executive for American Contractors Insurance Group where she provided risk management and safety consulting services for contractors across the United States. She is an expert on contractual risk transfer, risk financing, wrap‐ups, subcontractor default insurance, claims management, conflict resolution, and safety.

Tricia is a construction industry expert and speaker on various leadership, risk management and safety topics, including crisis management, emergency response best practices, education across cultures, and servant leadership and diversity.

She holds a master’s degree in dispute resolution from Southern Methodist University in Dallas, Texas, and her bachelor of science in business administration and bachelor of arts in communication—public relations from Regis University in Denver, Colorado.

Her professional credentials include Chartered Property Casualty Underwriter (CPCU); Certified Safety Professional (CSP); Construction Risk Insurance Specialist (CRIS); Associate in Risk Management (ARM); Associate in Claims Management (AIC); licensed Texas claims representative and commercial agent; and served as a construction panel arbitrator with the AAA.

Tricia is the author of the upcoming book “The B Words; 12 Words Every Woman Must Navigate on the Journey to Self Defined Success” where she highlights challenges and breakthrough strategies for women entering non‐traditional roles in the workplace. For more information go to https://www.sallyspencerthomas.com/hope-illuminated-podcast/50

Social Media, SEO & Suicide: How Can We Intervene On-Line When People Have Lost Hope?

How do we help people in despair overcome emotional pain and reconnect to purpose through an on-line intervention? Connection is the answer. Technology is the tool.

Our on-line technologies can have a whole spectrum of impact on our behavior — from helpful and healthy to harmful and hurtful, and the data we derive from our engagement with technology tells a powerful tale. When “13 Reasons Why” came out on March 31, 2017, I didn’t know anything about it. Five days later it had swept the globe, and the suicide prevention community became very concerned. By July 2017, a JAMA report looked at Google search trends during the 19 days after the show launched. Many terms related to suicide were significantly higher than expected and included increases in help-seeking (e.g., “suicide hotline number” was up 21%) and suicidal thoughts (e.g., “how to commit suicide” was up 26%). It wasn’t until April of 2019, however, did researchers conclude, “The release of 13 Reasons Why was associated with a significant increase in monthly suicide rates among US youth aged 10 to 17 years. Caution regarding the exposure of children and adolescents to the series is warranted.”

Google has partnered with the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline, so searches for phrases like “I want to kill myself” bring up graphic and phone number for this hotline. Facebook has a “report” and “support” functions for friends who are concerned about another’s suicidal on-line posting. Now, through the power of artificial intelligence, they are building algorithms that help them predict who is at risk for suicide. For more on social media and suicide prevention read: http://insurancethoughtleadership.com/social-media-and-suicide-prevention/.

My interview this week is with Anne Moss Rogers. After losing her son Charles to suicide, digital marketing expert, Anne Moss decided to use social media and SEO skills to reach those Googling “ways to die” with the goal of saving lives. The results have been remarkable and unexpected.

Anne Moss Rogers B&W.png
About Anne Moss Rogers
Anne Moss Rogers is also known as the “emotionally naked speaker” is a blogger, TEDx Talk storyteller and a brain tumor survivor. She is the author of “Diary of a Broken Mind”, a mother’s story, a son’s suicide, and the haunting lyrics he left behind. In other words, she is an inspiration of resilience.

As a motivational speaker she helps people foster a culture of connection to prevent suicide, reduce substance misuse, and find life after loss. Despite her family’s best efforts, Anne Moss’ 20-year-old son Charles died by suicide June 5, 2015 after many years of struggle with anxiety, depression, and ultimately addiction. Anne Moss started a blog, EmotionallyNaked.com, and chronicled her family’s tragedy in a newspaper article that went viral.

She has been featured in the New York Times, and was the first suicide loss survivor ever invited to speak at the National Institute of Mental Health (NIMH). She is also a trainer for the 4-hour evidence based training called safeTALK.

When Therapists Have Lived through Suicide Intensity — Deep Insights on Helping the Suicidal Person: Interview with Dr. Stacey Freedenthal

Do mental health providers’ own personal histories with suicide impact their interactions with and attitudes towards people experiencing suicide intensity? What happens when clinicians disclose their own suicide attempts to the public or to their clients? Does an “insider’s view” help a therapist to be more of an ally than an adversary? In this interview Dr. Stacey Freedenthal and I explore these questions as we have an in-depth conversation about her deep insights in helping the suicide person.

About Dr. Stacey Freedenthal
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Stacey Freedenthal, PhD, LCSW, is a tenured faculty member at the University of Denver’s Graduate School of Social Work where she teaches Suicide Assessment and Interventions, Assessment of Mental Health in Adults, Clinical Social Work Theory and Practice, and Social Justice Challenges in Mental Health Practice. She writes poignantly and powerfully about suicide. Her book, Helping the Suicidal Person: Tips and Techniques for Professionals, contains evidence-based instructions and advice for assessing risk, planning for safety and helping the suicidal person to build hope, coping skills and reasons for living. She has written more than 70 articles for her website SpeakingOfSuicide.com, a blog that has received over five million visitors since 2013.

Freedenthal started her journey working in the field of suicide prevention in 1994, when she volunteered at a suicide hotline. Subsequently, she earned a master’s degree in social work from the University of Texas at Austin. She held clinical positions in psychiatric emergency settings before returning to school to earn a PhD in social work from Washington University in St. Louis. Before Freedenthal became a social worker, she worked as a journalist for The Dallas Morning News. for more information go to https://www.sallyspencerthomas.com/hope-illuminated-podcast/48

Teens Bereaved by Suicide — Moving Forward When You Feel Left Behind: Interview with Jason Holzer | Episode 47

When a teen loses a loved one to suicide, the intense reactions can be overwhelming, and sometimes the caring adults don’t know what to do to help. Teens who are already feeling the pressure of school and social expectations can be very challenged in navigating the complexity of suicide bereavement. In this interview, Jason shares his journey from surviving to thriving after losing his Dad to suicide when he was 17.

About Jason Holzer
Jason grew up in Missouri in a loving family. At age 17, however, his life was changed forever on May 8, 2003, when his Dad died by suicide. Later Jason found a calling for resilience through his faith and vocation as a teacher and basketball coach to #Act2Impact. He strives to make meaning out of his loss to positively impact others and them them overcome the lasting impact of a suicide death. Today his is a speaker and the author of the book, “Shattered by Suicide: Renewed by Resilience.”
For more information go to https://www.sallyspencerthomas.com/hope-illuminated-podcast/47
Music provided by https://www.royaltyfree-music.com

The Forgotten Mourners — Disenfranchised Grief of Siblings Bereaved by Suicide: Interview with Dr. Lena Heilmann | Episode 46

Editor of “Still with Us: Voices of Sibling Suicide Loss,” Dr. Lena Heilmann joins me for our shared reflection on the experience of losing a brother or sister to suicide. We speak about how in this form of loss, siblings experience losing their past, present and future. Lena also suggests many strategies for coping with the grief and trauma of suicide loss.

On November 22, 2012, Lena lost her sister Danielle to suicide. Seven years later, she is turning that tremendous grief into energy to help other siblings who have experienced suicide loss. Her book is an anthology of sibling loss stories, organized by time since loss. She says “there is no gatekeeping on what it means to be a sibling,” meaning meaning a sibling is defined as anyone (a cousin, a friend, a relative, a family member through marriage, a soul connection, etc.) who fills a sibling role in our lives.

Reading reminded me of my journey of losing Carson from:

Feeling like I lost a part of myself

Later grieving the lost dreams I had imagined of us raising families together in Colorado

Still later I experienced survival guilt because I have learned so much about suicide since his death

Now I miss his presence greatly with the transitions I face in my life.

Lena and Danielle.jpg
I was so honored when Lena asked me to be one of the storytellers in her book. Together with many other sibling survivors, we are holding honor guard, as my friend Sarah Gaer calls it, for our loved ones by honoring their lives and sharing our stories. Many of us carry forward our loved one’s legacy and help others, so that we can make meaning out of our unimaginable loss.

In this podcast, Lena and I discuss many topics including the connection between suicide and trauma and the importance of storytelling in cutting through the loneliness of suicide grief.

About Dr. Lena Heilmann
Lena Headshot.jpg
Lena Heilmann lost her sister Danielle to suicide in 2012. In response to this traumatic loss and as a way to honor her sister, Lena transitioned to the world of suicide prevention. In her work and volunteer roles, Lena centers her lived experience and identity as a sibling suicide loss survivor. Her recent project is a collection of essays titled Still With Us: Voices of Sibling Suicide Loss Survivors (forthcoming), which includes 23 essays written by sibling suicide loss survivors. These essays share a common message: No matter how much time passes, our siblings are still with us.

Lena left the world of academia where she taught as a college professor in the areas of German studies, English, and gender, so she could work in suicide prevention full time. I have come to know and admire her work, strength and thoughtfulness through our shared tenure on the board of the Suicide Prevention Coalition of Colorado. We are also proud graduates of Regis University’s Masters in Nonprofit Management program.

Twitter: @LenaSchatz

Contact email related to book: LenaSurvivingSiblingSuicide@gmail.com
for mor information n this episode go to https://www.sallyspencerthomas.com/hope-illuminated-podcast/46
Music provided by https://www.royaltyfree-music.com

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